French youths open fire on police
Guardian Unlimited
Thursday November 3, 2005
A group of youths watch as firefighters extinguish burning vehicles during disturbances in the Paris suburb of Aulnay sur Bois. Photograph: Victor Tonelli/Reuters
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French youths fired at police and burned over 300 cars last night as towns around Paris experienced their worst night of violence in a week of urban unrest.
The French prime minister, Dominique de Villepin, was involved in a series of crisis meetings today following the clashes between police and immigrant groups in at least 10 poor suburbs, during which youths torched car dealerships, public buses and a school.
Four shots were fired at police and fire officers in four different towns without causing any injuries, said Jean-Francois Cordet, the senior government official for the troubled Seine-Saint-Denis region north of Paris, where the week of violence has been concentrated.
Protestors set fire to 315 cars in the Paris area overnight, half of them in Seine-Saint-Denis, where nine people were injured, officials said.
The violence has once more trained a spotlight on the poverty and lawlessness of France's rundown big-city suburbs and raises questions about an immigration policy that has, in effect, created sink ghettos for mainly African minorities who suffer from discrimination in housing, education and jobs.
In the north-eastern suburb of Aulnay-sous-Bois, gangs of youths set fire to a Renault car dealership and incinerated at least a dozen cars, a supermarket and a local gymnasium.
In nearby La Courneuve, two shots were fired at riot police, Mr Cordet said. A third shot targeted firefighters in Noisy-le-Sec, and a forth was aimed at a fire crew in Saint-Denis, home to the Stade de France stadium.
Bands of youths forced a team of France-2 television reporters out of their car in the suburb of Le Blanc Mesnil, then flipped the vehicle and set it on fire.
Unrest spilled over to public housing projects in the area, where police engaged in a cat-and-mouse game with youths, who would break car windows and toss petrol-bombs inside before running away.
Today, France's government was in crisis mode with Mr de Villepin calling a string of emergency meetings with government officials throughout the day.
One was a working lunch with the interior minister, Nicolas Sarkozy, who has been accused of inflaming the crisis with his tough talk and police tactics. Mr Sarkozy has called troublemakers "scum" and vowed to "clean out" troubled suburbs, language that some say further alienated their residents.
The unrest was triggered by last Thursday's accidental death in Clichy-sous-Bois, five miles from Aulnay, of two African teenagers who were electrocuted while hiding in a power substation from what they believed, apparently wrongly, was police pursuit. An interior ministry official described the clashes as "more like sporadic harassment, lightweight hit-and-run urban guerrilla fighting, than head-to-head confrontation". Small, highly mobile groups of up to a dozen youths emerge, hurl stones or petrol bombs, and disperse. "It's hard to contain," the official said.
The minister of social cohesion, Jean-Louis Borloo, said the government had to react "firmly" but added that France must also acknowledge its failure to deal with anger simmering in poor suburbs for decades.
"We cannot hide the truth: that for 30 years we have not done enough," he told France-2 television.
Full Version: Race Riots In Paris
Reuters
By Franck Prelvel
Thurs Nov 3rd
LE BLANC-MESNIL, France (Reuters) - Young rioters set fire to at least 50 vehicles in an eighth night of unrest in the impoverished suburbs of northeastern Paris as exasperated local officials criticized politicking by national leaders.
Rioting erupted again late on Thursday despite hopes that festivities ending the fasting month of Ramadan would calm rioters, many of them Muslims of North African origin protesting against race bias they say keeps them in a second-class status.
About 1,000 riot police patrolled poor areas but gangs of hooded youths roamed the streets threatening to strike again later in the night.
"It seems a bit calmer than previous nights but about 50 vehicles have been torched since nightfall," said a police spokesman in the Seine Saint Denis area.
French media also reported attacks on a school and a bus in northern Paris and on vehicles in two poor areas to the west of the capital. Several cars were also reported to gave been set ablaze in Dijon, the first city outside Paris to be hit.
On Thursday evening, local officials complained loudly about dithering and politicking among national officials after Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin briefed them about an "action plan for the suburbs" he aimed to present later this month.
"Many of us told him this isn't the time for an umpteenth plan," said Jean-Christophe Lagarde, mayor of Drancy in the riot-hit region. "All we need is one death and I think it will get out of control."
Manuel Valls, mayor of Evry south of the capital, said: "We're afraid that what's happening in Seine Saint Denis will spread. We have to give these people a message of hope."
LAW AND ORDER "ABSOLUTE PRIORITY"
Rioting among young men of North African and black African origin -- mostly locally-born citizens who feel cheated by France's official promises of liberty, equality and fraternity -- began last week after two teenagers of African origin died while fleeing the police.
It escalated on Wednesday evening when police and fire crews were shot at with live ammunition on three occasions. Villepin and Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy, whose bitter political rivalry has overshadowed the government's reaction, teamed up in the French Senate on Thursday to announce that restoring order was their "absolute priority".
Villepin indirectly blamed the riots on gangs he said terrorized residents and sought to keep police out of their neighborhoods.
"I refuse to accept that organized gangs are laying down the law in certain neighborhoods, I refuse to accept that crime networks and drug traffickers profit from this disorder, I refuse to accept that the strong intimidate the weak," he said.
"Law and order will have the last word," he told senators.
Sarkozy seconded him, saying: "There is only one political line, that set by the prime minister."
Sarkozy, accused by opponents of inflaming passions with his outspoken attacks on the "scum" behind the violence, said on Thursday that 143 people had been detained in the past week for rioting.
The unrest in France comes despite Sarkozy's anti-crime drive following President Jacques Chirac's re-election in 2002, which was won largely on law and order issues.
His two-pronged approach -- a crackdown on rioters combined with proposals to promote minorities and help fund mosques -- has provoked rearguard attacks from rivals in the conservative government who accuse him of stoking extremism.
Villepin has struggled to end cabinet squabbling over how to handle disturbances that forced him to cancel a trip to Canada and Sarkozy to call off a visit to Pakistan and Afghanistan. Moscow warned Russians against visiting Paris suburbs.
The ruling Union for a Popular Majority is split between a pro-Sarkozy camp and rivals who support Chirac and Villepin, handing the opposition Socialists a rare chance to attack the conservatives on their much-vaunted record on crime.
By Franck Prelvel
Thurs Nov 3rd
LE BLANC-MESNIL, France (Reuters) - Young rioters set fire to at least 50 vehicles in an eighth night of unrest in the impoverished suburbs of northeastern Paris as exasperated local officials criticized politicking by national leaders.
Rioting erupted again late on Thursday despite hopes that festivities ending the fasting month of Ramadan would calm rioters, many of them Muslims of North African origin protesting against race bias they say keeps them in a second-class status.
About 1,000 riot police patrolled poor areas but gangs of hooded youths roamed the streets threatening to strike again later in the night.
"It seems a bit calmer than previous nights but about 50 vehicles have been torched since nightfall," said a police spokesman in the Seine Saint Denis area.
French media also reported attacks on a school and a bus in northern Paris and on vehicles in two poor areas to the west of the capital. Several cars were also reported to gave been set ablaze in Dijon, the first city outside Paris to be hit.
On Thursday evening, local officials complained loudly about dithering and politicking among national officials after Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin briefed them about an "action plan for the suburbs" he aimed to present later this month.
"Many of us told him this isn't the time for an umpteenth plan," said Jean-Christophe Lagarde, mayor of Drancy in the riot-hit region. "All we need is one death and I think it will get out of control."
Manuel Valls, mayor of Evry south of the capital, said: "We're afraid that what's happening in Seine Saint Denis will spread. We have to give these people a message of hope."
LAW AND ORDER "ABSOLUTE PRIORITY"
Rioting among young men of North African and black African origin -- mostly locally-born citizens who feel cheated by France's official promises of liberty, equality and fraternity -- began last week after two teenagers of African origin died while fleeing the police.
It escalated on Wednesday evening when police and fire crews were shot at with live ammunition on three occasions. Villepin and Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy, whose bitter political rivalry has overshadowed the government's reaction, teamed up in the French Senate on Thursday to announce that restoring order was their "absolute priority".
Villepin indirectly blamed the riots on gangs he said terrorized residents and sought to keep police out of their neighborhoods.
"I refuse to accept that organized gangs are laying down the law in certain neighborhoods, I refuse to accept that crime networks and drug traffickers profit from this disorder, I refuse to accept that the strong intimidate the weak," he said.
"Law and order will have the last word," he told senators.
Sarkozy seconded him, saying: "There is only one political line, that set by the prime minister."
Sarkozy, accused by opponents of inflaming passions with his outspoken attacks on the "scum" behind the violence, said on Thursday that 143 people had been detained in the past week for rioting.
The unrest in France comes despite Sarkozy's anti-crime drive following President Jacques Chirac's re-election in 2002, which was won largely on law and order issues.
His two-pronged approach -- a crackdown on rioters combined with proposals to promote minorities and help fund mosques -- has provoked rearguard attacks from rivals in the conservative government who accuse him of stoking extremism.
Villepin has struggled to end cabinet squabbling over how to handle disturbances that forced him to cancel a trip to Canada and Sarkozy to call off a visit to Pakistan and Afghanistan. Moscow warned Russians against visiting Paris suburbs.
The ruling Union for a Popular Majority is split between a pro-Sarkozy camp and rivals who support Chirac and Villepin, handing the opposition Socialists a rare chance to attack the conservatives on their much-vaunted record on crime.
QUOTE(conquest @ Nov 5 2005, 06:09 AM)
Rioting among young men of North African and black African origin -- mostly locally-born citizens who feel cheated by France's official promises of liberty, equality and fraternity -- began last week after two teenagers of African origin died while fleeing the police.
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sounds a lot like what happened in Redfern....
France Demonstrates the West’s Failure to Accommodate it Muslim Minorities
Nov 11, 05 | 9:00 am
The riots in France seem to have caught everyone by surprise, not least the French establishment. However for those living in the poor French suburbs it seems that the deaths of two Muslim boys by electrocution after apparently being chased by French police was the final straw which broke the camel's back. Most of the residents of France's poor city suburbs, who happen to be Muslim of north African origin, live in sprawling urban estates. Many feel excluded from mainstream French society, with limited job prospects and dead end jobs and with unemployment in many parts running as high as 40%. With stories of police harassment and brutality towards minorities being rife, it seems as if France has never really welcomed it's migrant Muslim population which now numbers 6 million strong or 10% of the overall population. With the French interior minister Nicolas Sarkozy pandering to the far right electorate in anticipation of France's upcoming Presidential elections by calling the rioters "scum", France's mentality is perhaps best illustrated by the fact it has re-activated emergency laws first passed in 1955 to deal with France's colonial occupation of Algeria.
France champions itself as a guardian and cradle of 'human rights' and considers itself as a bastion of secularism. However it's experiment in coercion, as witnessed by the now infamous headscarf ban ruling for Muslim girls, pours cold water on this assertion with it's deliberate act of contempt for Muslim sensibilities and highlights it's utter hypocrisy. Indeed, the French being ashamed of their past colonial exploits in countries such as Algeria, have recently even passed a law requiring that French textbooks teach their students France's "positive contribution" in these countries. France, and Europe in general, now view their resident Muslim populations as a problem and are caught in a bind. Europe's past history of dealing with minorities in their midst is there for everyone to see. With declining birth rates and aging populations, the Europeans today welcome cheap immigrant labour as a means to further their prosperity but not it seems the customs and traditions of these people including the practice of their faith, Islam.
The West in general is struggling to accommodate it's minority populations, particularly Muslims. With recent and attempted "terror laws" being passed in Australia and the UK, all attempts are being made to beat and silence Muslim populations into submission and to end any legitimate opposition to the wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and the very real possibility of further campaigns against Syria and Iran. Whilst America recently 'celebrated' the life of the famous black activist Rosa Parks, who refused to give up her bus seat to a white person nearly 50 years ago, Hurricane Katrina's aftermath in America showed that attitudes towards black people have not really changed much, albeit apart from some superficial and cosmetic changes. Secularism rather then being the 'melting pot' as claimed, has proven itself to be highly intolerant by practically rejecting people of other faiths, cultures and origin. It fails to address deep rooted racist colonial attitudes amongst predominately white ruling elites who see immigration and immigrants as nothing more than cheap labour to fill menial jobs.
Contrast this with the past Islamic state or Caliphate. The Caliphate welcomed people from all over the world regardless of their colour, creed or faith. The reason for this is because Muslims consider it a divine obligation to inform non-Muslims about the ideas of Islam and immigration to the Islamic state represented a perfect opportunity for debate and dialogue. Despite rabid statements in right wing publications of 'forced' conversions and killings by 'bloodthirsty' Muslims, non-Muslims and Muslims lived together for hundreds of years. If anyone doubts this then let them consider the fact that in many Muslim ruled regions, countries today still have sizable non-Muslim minorities; the Coptic Christians in Egypt (10%), the Arab Christians in Syria and Lebanon and the Jewish population in Morocco (5%) and the overwhelming Hindu majority in India today. Infact while American soldiers attempt to enforce their writ in Iraq today at the barrel of a gun, many whose ancestors did convert to Islam remain Muslims today, despite the fact that the Caliphate's authority has long since vanished.
The Islamic ideology is truly 'global' because the Islamic identity is based on 'thought' and not on one's 'geographic' origin. Whilst the Spanish were carrying out their Inquisition in the 15th century and exiling their Jewish population, they were welcomed by the Islamic State at that time. The Caliph Sultan Bayazid II commented "the Catholic monarch Ferdinand was wrongly considered as wise, since he impoverished Spain by the expulsion of the Jews and enriched Turkey". It's a far cry from what Muslims are experiencing in the West today and can only expect to anticipate the future with Trepidation
Nov 11, 05 | 9:00 am
The riots in France seem to have caught everyone by surprise, not least the French establishment. However for those living in the poor French suburbs it seems that the deaths of two Muslim boys by electrocution after apparently being chased by French police was the final straw which broke the camel's back. Most of the residents of France's poor city suburbs, who happen to be Muslim of north African origin, live in sprawling urban estates. Many feel excluded from mainstream French society, with limited job prospects and dead end jobs and with unemployment in many parts running as high as 40%. With stories of police harassment and brutality towards minorities being rife, it seems as if France has never really welcomed it's migrant Muslim population which now numbers 6 million strong or 10% of the overall population. With the French interior minister Nicolas Sarkozy pandering to the far right electorate in anticipation of France's upcoming Presidential elections by calling the rioters "scum", France's mentality is perhaps best illustrated by the fact it has re-activated emergency laws first passed in 1955 to deal with France's colonial occupation of Algeria.
France champions itself as a guardian and cradle of 'human rights' and considers itself as a bastion of secularism. However it's experiment in coercion, as witnessed by the now infamous headscarf ban ruling for Muslim girls, pours cold water on this assertion with it's deliberate act of contempt for Muslim sensibilities and highlights it's utter hypocrisy. Indeed, the French being ashamed of their past colonial exploits in countries such as Algeria, have recently even passed a law requiring that French textbooks teach their students France's "positive contribution" in these countries. France, and Europe in general, now view their resident Muslim populations as a problem and are caught in a bind. Europe's past history of dealing with minorities in their midst is there for everyone to see. With declining birth rates and aging populations, the Europeans today welcome cheap immigrant labour as a means to further their prosperity but not it seems the customs and traditions of these people including the practice of their faith, Islam.
The West in general is struggling to accommodate it's minority populations, particularly Muslims. With recent and attempted "terror laws" being passed in Australia and the UK, all attempts are being made to beat and silence Muslim populations into submission and to end any legitimate opposition to the wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and the very real possibility of further campaigns against Syria and Iran. Whilst America recently 'celebrated' the life of the famous black activist Rosa Parks, who refused to give up her bus seat to a white person nearly 50 years ago, Hurricane Katrina's aftermath in America showed that attitudes towards black people have not really changed much, albeit apart from some superficial and cosmetic changes. Secularism rather then being the 'melting pot' as claimed, has proven itself to be highly intolerant by practically rejecting people of other faiths, cultures and origin. It fails to address deep rooted racist colonial attitudes amongst predominately white ruling elites who see immigration and immigrants as nothing more than cheap labour to fill menial jobs.
Contrast this with the past Islamic state or Caliphate. The Caliphate welcomed people from all over the world regardless of their colour, creed or faith. The reason for this is because Muslims consider it a divine obligation to inform non-Muslims about the ideas of Islam and immigration to the Islamic state represented a perfect opportunity for debate and dialogue. Despite rabid statements in right wing publications of 'forced' conversions and killings by 'bloodthirsty' Muslims, non-Muslims and Muslims lived together for hundreds of years. If anyone doubts this then let them consider the fact that in many Muslim ruled regions, countries today still have sizable non-Muslim minorities; the Coptic Christians in Egypt (10%), the Arab Christians in Syria and Lebanon and the Jewish population in Morocco (5%) and the overwhelming Hindu majority in India today. Infact while American soldiers attempt to enforce their writ in Iraq today at the barrel of a gun, many whose ancestors did convert to Islam remain Muslims today, despite the fact that the Caliphate's authority has long since vanished.
The Islamic ideology is truly 'global' because the Islamic identity is based on 'thought' and not on one's 'geographic' origin. Whilst the Spanish were carrying out their Inquisition in the 15th century and exiling their Jewish population, they were welcomed by the Islamic State at that time. The Caliph Sultan Bayazid II commented "the Catholic monarch Ferdinand was wrongly considered as wise, since he impoverished Spain by the expulsion of the Jews and enriched Turkey". It's a far cry from what Muslims are experiencing in the West today and can only expect to anticipate the future with Trepidation
An excellant title cover in the Independent newspaper on Monday 07 Nov (uk)
it is important to note that these riots are being carried out by young men/ boys mostly out of boredom as they have no jobs and so no real prospects in life.
the 'ghettoes' have largely been ignored by the government with the occasional socialist party calling for reform to help the impoverished.
these youths feel 'un french'. they have never been (allowed) to integrate with french society and so like what is so common wth some asian youths in England, the youth in France have a question of identity. are they french? if yes, why are their lives so hard compared to the rest of france?
interestingly i read that an earlier sign of 'urban unrest' was shown during a friendly football match between France and Algeria. the franch national anthem was booed not by the Algerian fans but by 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants with French nationality.
QUOTE
LIBERTER?
French Muslims banned from wearing head scarves in school
EGALITE?
France's non-whites twice as likely to be unemployed
FRATERNITE?
french government admits intergration has failed
REALITE?
chirac vows to restore as riots for eleventh night
French Muslims banned from wearing head scarves in school
EGALITE?
France's non-whites twice as likely to be unemployed
FRATERNITE?
french government admits intergration has failed
REALITE?
chirac vows to restore as riots for eleventh night
it is important to note that these riots are being carried out by young men/ boys mostly out of boredom as they have no jobs and so no real prospects in life.
the 'ghettoes' have largely been ignored by the government with the occasional socialist party calling for reform to help the impoverished.
these youths feel 'un french'. they have never been (allowed) to integrate with french society and so like what is so common wth some asian youths in England, the youth in France have a question of identity. are they french? if yes, why are their lives so hard compared to the rest of france?
interestingly i read that an earlier sign of 'urban unrest' was shown during a friendly football match between France and Algeria. the franch national anthem was booed not by the Algerian fans but by 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants with French nationality.
I don't know if anyone saw the Agenda (2 nights ago on Islam Channel) but they had a couple of brilliant interviews with French Muslims which agreed with what people here are saying.
One of the problems they pointed out is that the French state strips people of their Muslim identity with promices of equal citizenship then denies them that.
So these riot are like a force of nature, appeals from religious leaders won't calm them because it's doubtful these youths care what they think, esp as they are in Sarkozy's pocket.
The French aren't drawing the lessons. They're blaming immigrants and agitators. But what both interviewees said was that as bad as things are here, there is at least the concept that racism is unacceptable.
In France the idea that the police shouldn't pick on Arabs/Africans is not seriously voiced in the political mainstream. Ministers refer to the rioteers as "immigrants", although most are third generation. Could you imagine the uproar if someone did that here?
We should use this as an example of why we should oppose mindless assimilationism, racist language, social exclusion and all the rest of the package the Govt is pushing in the name of anti-terrorism - or it will happen here too (UK).
In the interview someone said that the French governement was leaning on Blair to make his policies towards Muslims more like France's. That's the lesson to draw.
In Britain, in the 70s and early 80s things were a lot more like France in terms of racism. A persistant campaign by anti-racists changed things. Now, despite all the moans about PC, racism is unacceptable in British society.
The French could start the ball rolling by kicking the NF out of politics. If young people in the suburbs need to be violent, let them choose that target. When the NF is on the run, a lot of the pressure to be racist will be taken out of French politics and anti-racism will grow. Chirac banned hijab to win NF supporters to his party. No NF - no racist lobby.
One of the problems they pointed out is that the French state strips people of their Muslim identity with promices of equal citizenship then denies them that.
So these riot are like a force of nature, appeals from religious leaders won't calm them because it's doubtful these youths care what they think, esp as they are in Sarkozy's pocket.
The French aren't drawing the lessons. They're blaming immigrants and agitators. But what both interviewees said was that as bad as things are here, there is at least the concept that racism is unacceptable.
In France the idea that the police shouldn't pick on Arabs/Africans is not seriously voiced in the political mainstream. Ministers refer to the rioteers as "immigrants", although most are third generation. Could you imagine the uproar if someone did that here?
We should use this as an example of why we should oppose mindless assimilationism, racist language, social exclusion and all the rest of the package the Govt is pushing in the name of anti-terrorism - or it will happen here too (UK).
In the interview someone said that the French governement was leaning on Blair to make his policies towards Muslims more like France's. That's the lesson to draw.
In Britain, in the 70s and early 80s things were a lot more like France in terms of racism. A persistant campaign by anti-racists changed things. Now, despite all the moans about PC, racism is unacceptable in British society.
The French could start the ball rolling by kicking the NF out of politics. If young people in the suburbs need to be violent, let them choose that target. When the NF is on the run, a lot of the pressure to be racist will be taken out of French politics and anti-racism will grow. Chirac banned hijab to win NF supporters to his party. No NF - no racist lobby.
60 Minutes are calling the French rioters Muslim extremists....
I saw that. I had to laugh. It's another scary Peter Overton report. He thinks we're freaks to begin with so it's be interesting to see what he says about us now.
60 minutes is just trying to capitalise on the hoopla surrounding the raids this week. They're trying to attract the 2GB, 2UE, right-wingers who are a huge market.
60 minutes is just trying to capitalise on the hoopla surrounding the raids this week. They're trying to attract the 2GB, 2UE, right-wingers who are a huge market.
most of the rioters are very young and BORED. its a way of life:
you have **** housing, poor education, high unemployment, high drug abuse, and gang culture. a prime example of failed multicuturism.
the french are simply racist..look at how many people of colour there are on tv and politics. its pathetic.
and the rioters are only 40% muslim. its a combination of all ethnic groups so the problem is universal.
you have **** housing, poor education, high unemployment, high drug abuse, and gang culture. a prime example of failed multicuturism.
the french are simply racist..look at how many people of colour there are on tv and politics. its pathetic.
and the rioters are only 40% muslim. its a combination of all ethnic groups so the problem is universal.
QUOTE(conquest @ Nov 14 2005, 04:30 AM)
most of the rioters are very young and BORED. its a way of life:
you have **** housing, poor education, high unemployment, high drug abuse, and gang culture. a prime example of failed multicuturism.
the french are simply racist..look at how many people of colour there are on tv and politics. its pathetic.
and the rioters are only 40% muslim. its a combination of all ethnic groups so the problem is universal.
[right][snapback]243036[/snapback][/right]
you have **** housing, poor education, high unemployment, high drug abuse, and gang culture. a prime example of failed multicuturism.
the french are simply racist..look at how many people of colour there are on tv and politics. its pathetic.
and the rioters are only 40% muslim. its a combination of all ethnic groups so the problem is universal.
[right][snapback]243036[/snapback][/right]
hey conquest, just wondering where you got the figure of 40% from? i'm wanting to quote it to someone else but would like to know wher eit came from first.
QUOTE
SPIEGEL Interview with Tariq Ramadan
"They Live in a Bleak, Devastated Universe" ... Islamic scholar and philosopher Tariq Ramadan discusses the riots in French suburbs, the integration of Muslims in Europe and the need for modernization of Islam. Read More ...
"They Live in a Bleak, Devastated Universe" ... Islamic scholar and philosopher Tariq Ramadan discusses the riots in French suburbs, the integration of Muslims in Europe and the need for modernization of Islam. Read More ...
QUOTE(Guilty Til Proven Innocent @ Nov 12 2005, 02:53 PM)
60 Minutes are calling the French rioters Muslim extremists....
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QUOTE(Mercurial @ Nov 12 2005, 03:30 PM)
I saw that. I had to laugh. It's another scary Peter Overton report. He thinks we're freaks to begin with so it's be interesting to see what he says about us now.
60 minutes is just trying to capitalise on the hoopla surrounding the raids this week. They're trying to attract the 2GB, 2UE, right-wingers who are a huge market.
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60 minutes is just trying to capitalise on the hoopla surrounding the raids this week. They're trying to attract the 2GB, 2UE, right-wingers who are a huge market.
[right][snapback]242280[/snapback][/right]
- Indeed
Anyone remembers Overton's 15Minutes of Panic feature report, "Home Grown" earlier this year?
Paris Burning
Reductionist & destructive (tabloid) TV journalism @ its best
- France -No Wisdom on Migrants
The social ills in France do not prove multiculturalism fails - they don't have such a thing, writes Gerard Henderson*
Beaware a Frenchman bearing advice on social order. On 60 Minutes last Sunday, Peter Overton interviewed Dominique Moisi about the civil disorder that began in north-east Paris more than two weeks ago and which has spread to other cities, including Lyons and Marseilles. He is a commentator, academic and senior adviser to the French Institute of International Relations.
At the end of the interview, Overton asked Professor Moisi whether recent events in France had provided "a warning for Australia as well". He replied: "Oh yes. The message for Australia is the message, I'd say, for any country in the world that has large immigrant populations that are not fully integrated. Listen to these people, engage in permanent dialogue with them. Do not allow them to feel alienated in your society. Don't create monsters by your indifference."
No doubt Moisi is well meaning. Moreover, in the present climate in France, he is a voice for moderation against the ideology of Jean-Marie Le Pen and his supporters in the extreme right National Front. Yet, to Australians, Moisi's message is confusing. France practises integration with respect to its ethnic minorities, from North Africa and Arab nations, in the sense that the French do not formally recognise their existence.
Australia is different. Under the governments led by Gough Whitlam, Malcolm Fraser, Bob Hawke and Paul Keating, Australia has preferred multiculturalism to integration. As John Howard made clear on 60 Minutes on Sunday, he does "not particularly" like the word multicultural. Yet his Government has advocated a policy, which the Prime Minister prefers to call "Australian multiculturalism", which is not dramatically different from that of its predecessors.
There has been misunderstanding in Australia about successive French governments, socialist and conservative. Such commentators as the journalist Piers Akerman and the broadcaster Alan Jones have interpreted the unrest in France as providing a warning to Australia that multiculturalism does not work. The essential point is that multiculturalism has never been tried in France. On the contrary, France's problems are a manifestation of the failure of its flawed attempt at integration over half a century or so.
Anyone who has residence in France is expected to act like the French. There is no public recognition that immigrants to France - or their children or grandchildren - might like to preserve part of their ethnic culture or native language or that this might benefit France. There is no French equivalent of SBS and there are few government sponsored organisations for inter-ethnic dialogue. It's a case of when in France do as the French do.
As a result French authorities do not even monitor the results of population movements in the nation. For example, it is all but impossible to imagine the publication in France of a book similar to The Australian People (CUP, 2001), edited by James Jupp and funded by the federal state and territory governments. As Jupp says in his introduction, the emphasis of his encyclopedia is on "the ethnic variety of Australia and the role of immigration in building the nation which we have today". Ethnic diversity is rarely discussed in France.
At a meeting last year at the Palais de l'Elysee, I asked a French official the accuracy of the prediction that, on present population projections, France would be 50 per cent Muslim by about 2050. In response, there was a blank stare - followed by the advice that these statistics are not collected. In official French parlance, there is no such ethnic identity as French-Algerian or French-Moroccan. Just French-French, so to speak.
Certainly, many of France's social problems are a result of its dreadful economic performance, mainly due to France's unwillingness to engage in economic reform as well as its regulated industrial relations system. This protects the employed and former employees on pensions at the expense of those without jobs. Unemployment is 10 per cent while youth unemployment is more than 20 per cent. Unemployment in the public housing areas, where so many French Muslims from North Africa live, is 30 per cent plus.
There is another area where the French and Australian immigrant experience differs. In his essay in Leonie Kramer's edited collection The Multicultural Experiment (Macleay Press, 2003), the historian Professor Geoffrey Blainey refers to the "bold experiment" of "encouraging large and inward-looking Muslim enclaves in Western nations". There has been no such experiment, bold or otherwise, in Australia. If Blainey wants to see a real enclave, he should travel to the suburbs on the edges of Paris. They are perhaps best depicted as government sponsored social dysfunction.
Moisi proffers sound advice when he entreats immigrant nations, like Australia, to listen to ethnic groups and engage them in permanent dialogue. It's just that this is what countries such as Australia, Britain, Canada and the US try to do - to a greater or lesser extent. Avowedly multicultural nations are not formally indifferent to their ethnic minorities, of whatever generation.
The fact is that multiculturalism has worked well in Australia and has contributed to an accepting society. The tests? Well, inter-marriage rates between ethnic groups are relatively high. And the level of ethnic motivated crime is relatively low. France's contemporary social problems have nothing to do with multiculturalism but, rather, much to do with its absence.
*Gerard Henderson is the executive director of the Sydney Institute.
==========================================
...
- To French Republic: here comes the nouveau Aussie love
... de rien
...
Peter Overton is a lower-order vegetable.
Was Salaam
Afroz
Was Salaam
Afroz
QUOTE(afroz @ Nov 21 2005, 04:25 PM)
Peter Overton is a lower-order vegetable.
Was Salaam
Afroz
[right][snapback]246711[/snapback][/right]
Was Salaam
Afroz
[right][snapback]246711[/snapback][/right]
Wow
I had a few other words about him but then I thought better of it. How long did it take you to come up with "lower-order vegetable"? Why would you insult a vegetable by relating it back to Overton? I would move to use the words "vermin" or "puss" - yes, much more suitable
Wasalaam
Hanan
Assalamualikum wa rahmatullah
Just for everyones' info.:
Hizb ut-Tahrir uninvolved in French riots - United Press International - USA
Jazakallahkheir.
Just for everyones' info.:
Hizb ut-Tahrir uninvolved in French riots - United Press International - USA
QUOTE
[In fact] UPI's own eyewitness reports from the French riots specifically noted that "Islam and religion seemed to play only a minor role."
Jazakallahkheir.
...
More wives - more trouble
20 Nov 2005
In 1992, French President Mitterrand, blamed the Los Angeles riots of the 1990s on the “conservative society” that Presidents Reagan and Bush had created and said France is different because it “is the country where the level of social protection is the highest in the world.” (Washington Post)
In the aftermath of the Brixton riots in south London in 1981 the British government commissioned a high court judge, Lord Scarman, to set up an enquiry into the root causes of the South London unrest. In California in 1992, riots followed the trial of police officers who were caught on camera beating a black man with batons. In the same area of the US, Watts South Central Los Angeles CA, there were violent disturbances in the 1965. California State surpasses France to rank as the World’s fifth largest economy. So the Rodney King and Watts riots highlighted issues of racial inequality within the State; also police brutality, the disparity between rich and poor as well as the appalling conditions in which some blacks lived in, within this privileged and prosperous part of the US.
Historians, politicians, analysts, economists and social scientists have made in-depth studies resulting in several suggestions as to the origins of this type of violence. They have also offered diverse solutions to the problems that underlie these troubled pockets within these rich nations. Issues such as racism, bad housing, low unemployment rates, poor policing, poverty, lack of education, and general deprivation have all been offered up as reasons for the riots. Although the causes of these disturbances are multifaceted and complex there are many manifest social problems that exist within parts South Central LA and parts of South East London. However assigning causal linkage between observations and acts of violence incidences is never straight forward. These are not the only incidences of unrest the US and UK have seen over that last half century. In deed these are not the only two countries, within the so called developed nations, that have been affected by troubles on the streets of their major cities. We should therefore understand that there exist volumes and tomes of learned texts written on why these flare ups occur. Debates and discussions; observations and solutions; have been documented for use by those charged with forging a cohesive society. Those politicians and planners involved in social engineering have a wealth of academic and practical knowledge to fall back on.
Making conclusions about causes, in this context, is extremely problematic and open to human error and inaccuracies. The perceived linkages are often influenced by the political persuasions of those making the associations. The suggested solutions and reasons behind riots often say more about those making the comment rather than those involved in the rioting. Since unrest broke out on 27 October 2005 in a housing project outside Paris following the fatal electrocutions of two teenagers while hiding from police in a power substation, many “experts” have passed comment on the whys and wherefores of the riots that quickly spread through poor minority communities across France. It would be reasonable to expect that French commentators would be enlightened and accurate when diagnosing the maladies of their inner cities, considering that France was the homeland of so many famous western philosophers. We may wonder what Voltaire, Rousseau or Descartes would have made of the nights of burning cars and youths sharing cocktails with the jandam. Perhaps the philosophers of yesteryear would have been outraged by the shoddy housing, lack of employment and poor education that many of the rioters were accustomed to. Maybe they could have even offered remedies for the problems faced by the French-born children of North and West African immigrant families.
Some of the modern commentators have made observations relating to French racism and the authorities ambivalence about the abject alienation of the youth that were wrenched away from the Islamic lands through the Gallic colonial ambition and dumped in slums of Paris and Toulouse.
However the comments from the French seem to be bereft of thought or enlightenment. Bernard Accoyer, leader of the Union for a Popular Majority (UMP) in the National Assembly lower house of parliament, told French radio that children from large polygamous families had problems integrating into mainstream society. “There is clearly a problem with the integration of immigrants and, more importantly, their children,” Accoyer told RTL radio. “In order for us to be able to integrate them, there must not be more of them than our capacity to integrate them. That’s the issue. It’s like polygamy....It’s certainly one of the causes (of the riots), though not the only one.” He said polygamy led to “an inability to provide an education as it is needed in an organized, normative society like in Europe and notably France.” So its polygamy that is to blame for burning car in the suburbs of France’s main cities. He is not the only one with who made this correlation, Employment Minister Gerard Larcher was quoted (Financial Times) to have said large polygamous families sometimes led to anti-social behaviour by youths who lacked a father figure and made employers reluctant to hire them.
This link is not merely tenuous it is surreal. It is like us saying that the reason for the rioting is the large number of French figures in high office that commit adultery or cheat on the wives. Senior French politicians from President Mitterrand (who kept his second family under wraps and at state expense for 20 years) to Nicolas Sorkozy, are renowned for their relationships outside the marital home. What kind of a debouched society would be created when the men that are in charge constantly lie to those that they love? We are not in a position to offer definitive answers to the problems for the French suburbs. However we don’t think the riots had anything to do with having more than one wife.
Source
20 Nov 2005
In 1992, French President Mitterrand, blamed the Los Angeles riots of the 1990s on the “conservative society” that Presidents Reagan and Bush had created and said France is different because it “is the country where the level of social protection is the highest in the world.” (Washington Post)
In the aftermath of the Brixton riots in south London in 1981 the British government commissioned a high court judge, Lord Scarman, to set up an enquiry into the root causes of the South London unrest. In California in 1992, riots followed the trial of police officers who were caught on camera beating a black man with batons. In the same area of the US, Watts South Central Los Angeles CA, there were violent disturbances in the 1965. California State surpasses France to rank as the World’s fifth largest economy. So the Rodney King and Watts riots highlighted issues of racial inequality within the State; also police brutality, the disparity between rich and poor as well as the appalling conditions in which some blacks lived in, within this privileged and prosperous part of the US.
Historians, politicians, analysts, economists and social scientists have made in-depth studies resulting in several suggestions as to the origins of this type of violence. They have also offered diverse solutions to the problems that underlie these troubled pockets within these rich nations. Issues such as racism, bad housing, low unemployment rates, poor policing, poverty, lack of education, and general deprivation have all been offered up as reasons for the riots. Although the causes of these disturbances are multifaceted and complex there are many manifest social problems that exist within parts South Central LA and parts of South East London. However assigning causal linkage between observations and acts of violence incidences is never straight forward. These are not the only incidences of unrest the US and UK have seen over that last half century. In deed these are not the only two countries, within the so called developed nations, that have been affected by troubles on the streets of their major cities. We should therefore understand that there exist volumes and tomes of learned texts written on why these flare ups occur. Debates and discussions; observations and solutions; have been documented for use by those charged with forging a cohesive society. Those politicians and planners involved in social engineering have a wealth of academic and practical knowledge to fall back on.
Making conclusions about causes, in this context, is extremely problematic and open to human error and inaccuracies. The perceived linkages are often influenced by the political persuasions of those making the associations. The suggested solutions and reasons behind riots often say more about those making the comment rather than those involved in the rioting. Since unrest broke out on 27 October 2005 in a housing project outside Paris following the fatal electrocutions of two teenagers while hiding from police in a power substation, many “experts” have passed comment on the whys and wherefores of the riots that quickly spread through poor minority communities across France. It would be reasonable to expect that French commentators would be enlightened and accurate when diagnosing the maladies of their inner cities, considering that France was the homeland of so many famous western philosophers. We may wonder what Voltaire, Rousseau or Descartes would have made of the nights of burning cars and youths sharing cocktails with the jandam. Perhaps the philosophers of yesteryear would have been outraged by the shoddy housing, lack of employment and poor education that many of the rioters were accustomed to. Maybe they could have even offered remedies for the problems faced by the French-born children of North and West African immigrant families.
Some of the modern commentators have made observations relating to French racism and the authorities ambivalence about the abject alienation of the youth that were wrenched away from the Islamic lands through the Gallic colonial ambition and dumped in slums of Paris and Toulouse.
However the comments from the French seem to be bereft of thought or enlightenment. Bernard Accoyer, leader of the Union for a Popular Majority (UMP) in the National Assembly lower house of parliament, told French radio that children from large polygamous families had problems integrating into mainstream society. “There is clearly a problem with the integration of immigrants and, more importantly, their children,” Accoyer told RTL radio. “In order for us to be able to integrate them, there must not be more of them than our capacity to integrate them. That’s the issue. It’s like polygamy....It’s certainly one of the causes (of the riots), though not the only one.” He said polygamy led to “an inability to provide an education as it is needed in an organized, normative society like in Europe and notably France.” So its polygamy that is to blame for burning car in the suburbs of France’s main cities. He is not the only one with who made this correlation, Employment Minister Gerard Larcher was quoted (Financial Times) to have said large polygamous families sometimes led to anti-social behaviour by youths who lacked a father figure and made employers reluctant to hire them.
This link is not merely tenuous it is surreal. It is like us saying that the reason for the rioting is the large number of French figures in high office that commit adultery or cheat on the wives. Senior French politicians from President Mitterrand (who kept his second family under wraps and at state expense for 20 years) to Nicolas Sorkozy, are renowned for their relationships outside the marital home. What kind of a debouched society would be created when the men that are in charge constantly lie to those that they love? We are not in a position to offer definitive answers to the problems for the French suburbs. However we don’t think the riots had anything to do with having more than one wife.
Source
QUOTE(Abu Umar @ Nov 22 2005, 02:43 PM)
Surely, the fact that the rioters did something about their situation other than print pamphlets and give boring talks would have precluded any suggestion of an HT hand in all this?
[right][snapback]247188[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]247188[/snapback][/right]
Yea..unfortunately, politicians, leaders and think tanks around the world don't share your assessment. They should probably step aside, huh?
QUOTE(Abu Umar @ Nov 22 2005, 03:43 PM)
Surely, the fact that the rioters did something about their situation other than print pamphlets and give boring talks would have precluded any suggestion of an HT hand in all this?
[right][snapback]247188[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]247188[/snapback][/right]
But violence solves nothing
QUOTE(Abu Umar @ Nov 22 2005, 03:43 PM)
Surely, the fact that the rioters did something about their situation other than print pamphlets and give boring talks would have precluded any suggestion of an HT hand in all this?
[right][snapback]247188[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]247188[/snapback][/right]
Agreed. That is proof enough.
Was Salaam
Afroz
An article that sums up the situation very well 
The French Riots and the Blame Game
Amir Butler - Tuesday, Nov 22nd, 2005
In examining the recent riots across France, it is tempting to level blame on the supposedly irreconcilable differences between the secular West and Islam. The rioters, after all, were largely the children of Muslim migrants from North and West Africa; and the target of their rage was, after all, an archetypal secular polity. If much of the commentary is to be believed, these riots represent the opening battle in some sort of European intifada or an al-Qaeda inspired push to re-establish the Caliphate in the Parisian suburbs.
However, it is a lazy and simplistic reading of the situation that impugns Islam for these riots. Rather, the violence had little to do with some Muslim hostility towards democracy, but everything to do with economic problems that are largely unique to the socialist economies of 'old Europe'.
Unlike Australia, the United States, and the United Kingdom, France does not recognise multiculturalism. Migrants must assimilate and the state has undertaken a series of aggressive measures – such as banning Islamic hijab in public schools – to push the process along.
Integration is, however, more than merely forcing migrants to adopt some vacuous notion of ‘Frenchness’. It is not enough that new entrants merely embrace some cultural affectations and give their children French names. Perhaps more importantly, migrants must be integrated economically. It is only by working, earning money and being financially independent that a person develops the self-respect and dignity needed to be a productive member of the social and cultural fabric of the society. This is where France has failed: whilst it has demanded its migrants assimilate culturally, the economy has offered little opportunity for economic assimilation.
The French economy is growing at just 1.2% and has one of the highest rates of youth unemployment in Europe. For those under 25, the unemployment rate is 22% (approximately twice the rate of the United States and Britain). In the banlieues, where the riots erupted, youth unemployment is estimated to run at over 50%.
These alarmingly high levels of youth unemployment are caused by a rigid French labour market. France has one of the highest minimum wages in Europe and its workers enjoy the protection of strong unions and a variety of regulations that ensure short work weeks, generous state pensions, and long holidays. It is very difficult for companies to rationalise staff or hire staff temporarily. Meanwhile, with government spending accounting for roughly half the GDP and an escalating pension and social security burden, individuals and businesses endure stiflingly heavy taxation.
As a result, the French economy produces a miniscule number of new jobs each year as compared to the United Kingdom or United States. The high minimum wage exacerbates the problem by making it expensive to hire new staff. The result is obvious: businesses will discriminate in favour of job applicants with closer cultural ties to the dominant culture, more experience or already employed.
Therefore, migrants and the children of migrants are pushed to the margins. They are told that they are French by a system that refuses to recognise the multicultural face of French society, yet when they attempt to find employment soon realise that they are not competing on an equal footing. With laws preventing the collection of any statistical data based on ethnicity or religion, the French government remains blissfully unaware of these problems. This, in turn, builds resentment and a feeling of alienation amongst the young who find themselves excluded both economically and socially.
Instead of addressing the root causes of unemployment, the French government has plied these poor neighbourhoods with public funds: government housing, hospitals, and generous social security payments. An emasculating dependence on handouts, aggressive demands of cultural assimilation, and yet little reciprocal hope of economic integration has created the cultural milieu that begot these riots.
In competitive, relatively liberalised labour markets, such as the United States, the ongoing demand for labour ensures employers cannot discriminate on the basis of things such as race or religion. It is for this reason that ethnic groups in more liberal economies do not face the same social problems as those in countries such as France and its neighbours. It is also for this reason that it is unlikely that similar riots would ever occur in Australia or the United States. Regardless of what some opportunists now warn.
http://www.amirbutler.com/archives/2005/11/22/57
The French Riots and the Blame Game
Amir Butler - Tuesday, Nov 22nd, 2005
In examining the recent riots across France, it is tempting to level blame on the supposedly irreconcilable differences between the secular West and Islam. The rioters, after all, were largely the children of Muslim migrants from North and West Africa; and the target of their rage was, after all, an archetypal secular polity. If much of the commentary is to be believed, these riots represent the opening battle in some sort of European intifada or an al-Qaeda inspired push to re-establish the Caliphate in the Parisian suburbs.
However, it is a lazy and simplistic reading of the situation that impugns Islam for these riots. Rather, the violence had little to do with some Muslim hostility towards democracy, but everything to do with economic problems that are largely unique to the socialist economies of 'old Europe'.
Unlike Australia, the United States, and the United Kingdom, France does not recognise multiculturalism. Migrants must assimilate and the state has undertaken a series of aggressive measures – such as banning Islamic hijab in public schools – to push the process along.
Integration is, however, more than merely forcing migrants to adopt some vacuous notion of ‘Frenchness’. It is not enough that new entrants merely embrace some cultural affectations and give their children French names. Perhaps more importantly, migrants must be integrated economically. It is only by working, earning money and being financially independent that a person develops the self-respect and dignity needed to be a productive member of the social and cultural fabric of the society. This is where France has failed: whilst it has demanded its migrants assimilate culturally, the economy has offered little opportunity for economic assimilation.
The French economy is growing at just 1.2% and has one of the highest rates of youth unemployment in Europe. For those under 25, the unemployment rate is 22% (approximately twice the rate of the United States and Britain). In the banlieues, where the riots erupted, youth unemployment is estimated to run at over 50%.
These alarmingly high levels of youth unemployment are caused by a rigid French labour market. France has one of the highest minimum wages in Europe and its workers enjoy the protection of strong unions and a variety of regulations that ensure short work weeks, generous state pensions, and long holidays. It is very difficult for companies to rationalise staff or hire staff temporarily. Meanwhile, with government spending accounting for roughly half the GDP and an escalating pension and social security burden, individuals and businesses endure stiflingly heavy taxation.
As a result, the French economy produces a miniscule number of new jobs each year as compared to the United Kingdom or United States. The high minimum wage exacerbates the problem by making it expensive to hire new staff. The result is obvious: businesses will discriminate in favour of job applicants with closer cultural ties to the dominant culture, more experience or already employed.
Therefore, migrants and the children of migrants are pushed to the margins. They are told that they are French by a system that refuses to recognise the multicultural face of French society, yet when they attempt to find employment soon realise that they are not competing on an equal footing. With laws preventing the collection of any statistical data based on ethnicity or religion, the French government remains blissfully unaware of these problems. This, in turn, builds resentment and a feeling of alienation amongst the young who find themselves excluded both economically and socially.
Instead of addressing the root causes of unemployment, the French government has plied these poor neighbourhoods with public funds: government housing, hospitals, and generous social security payments. An emasculating dependence on handouts, aggressive demands of cultural assimilation, and yet little reciprocal hope of economic integration has created the cultural milieu that begot these riots.
In competitive, relatively liberalised labour markets, such as the United States, the ongoing demand for labour ensures employers cannot discriminate on the basis of things such as race or religion. It is for this reason that ethnic groups in more liberal economies do not face the same social problems as those in countries such as France and its neighbours. It is also for this reason that it is unlikely that similar riots would ever occur in Australia or the United States. Regardless of what some opportunists now warn.
http://www.amirbutler.com/archives/2005/11/22/57
QUOTE
hey conquest, just wondering where you got the figure of 40% from? i'm wanting to quote it to someone else but would like to know wher eit came from first.
salaams, sorry this is so late, i haven't been on for a long time.
i got the figures form the independent newspaper (england).
the rioters were made up of: french-born algerians (mostly muslims), african immigrants (christian and muslim), polish and other eastern europeans... all of whom are living in the poorest areas of france.
poverty and unrest are the root causes of revolutions...
French PM unveils plans to help youths after riots
Thu Dec 1, 2005 2:40 PM GMT
By Helene Fontanaud
PARIS (Reuters) - France unveiled plans on Thursday to give youngsters in poor suburbs a better education and equal opportunities after its worst urban rioting in almost 40 years, and said it would punish discrimination with swingeing fines.
Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin, who used emergency measures to quell the unrest, is now under pressure to show he can tackle the problems behind three weeks of rioting, mostly by youths of African or Arab origin.
He said acts of discrimination would be punishable by fines of up to 25,000 euros, firms would consider guidelines to make job applications anonymous and the government and trade unions would try to increase diversity in the state sector.
"The crisis we have just lived through has revealed weaknesses and inadequacies and has made us aware of the progress which has to be made," Villepin told his monthly news conference.
"The urgency today is to make equality of opportunity a reality for everyone, with two levers: jobs and education."
Thousands of cars were set ablaze in the unrest, which ended in mid-November after the government invoked a colonial-era law allowing it to declare curfews. The rioters complained of high unemployment and exclusion from mainstream French society.
Villepin, who made cutting unemployment his conservative government's priority after President Jacques Chirac appointed him on May 31, hailed a fall in the jobless rate below 10 percent in recent months but said this was not enough.
He said children who faced difficulties at school would receive more support, and outlined a "contract of parental responsibility" to be drawn up with social workers and schools to ensure parents were involved in their children's education.
Villepin also said young people would be able to take up apprenticeships from the age of 14 instead of 16 and that the prestigious Sciences Po university would set up an experimental school in a poor Paris suburb that was hit by rioting.
"We need action. We have to reject state helplessness and find solutions for the problems of the French people," he said.
Many young people in the suburbs have expressed doubts that the government will carry out its promises, and the opposition Socialist Party remained sceptical.
"He is trying to play Father Christmas with a gift parcel in which there is nothing," Socialist Party spokesman Julien Dray said. "There isn't any money for the suburbs, for the people on the ground, or to change things."
Villepin also faces dissent on some policy issues from his number two in government, Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy.
Sarkozy, who has made no secret of his presidential ambitions and could face a battle with Villepin to lead the centre-right into the 2007 presidential election, supports "positive discrimination" or affirmative action to help minorities find jobs. Villepin again ruled that out.
(Additional reporting by Laure Bretton)
© Reuters 2005. All Rights Reserved.
-------------------------------------------
as shown time and time again the rioting has nothing to do with islam
Thu Dec 1, 2005 2:40 PM GMT
By Helene Fontanaud
PARIS (Reuters) - France unveiled plans on Thursday to give youngsters in poor suburbs a better education and equal opportunities after its worst urban rioting in almost 40 years, and said it would punish discrimination with swingeing fines.
Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin, who used emergency measures to quell the unrest, is now under pressure to show he can tackle the problems behind three weeks of rioting, mostly by youths of African or Arab origin.
He said acts of discrimination would be punishable by fines of up to 25,000 euros, firms would consider guidelines to make job applications anonymous and the government and trade unions would try to increase diversity in the state sector.
"The crisis we have just lived through has revealed weaknesses and inadequacies and has made us aware of the progress which has to be made," Villepin told his monthly news conference.
"The urgency today is to make equality of opportunity a reality for everyone, with two levers: jobs and education."
Thousands of cars were set ablaze in the unrest, which ended in mid-November after the government invoked a colonial-era law allowing it to declare curfews. The rioters complained of high unemployment and exclusion from mainstream French society.
Villepin, who made cutting unemployment his conservative government's priority after President Jacques Chirac appointed him on May 31, hailed a fall in the jobless rate below 10 percent in recent months but said this was not enough.
He said children who faced difficulties at school would receive more support, and outlined a "contract of parental responsibility" to be drawn up with social workers and schools to ensure parents were involved in their children's education.
Villepin also said young people would be able to take up apprenticeships from the age of 14 instead of 16 and that the prestigious Sciences Po university would set up an experimental school in a poor Paris suburb that was hit by rioting.
"We need action. We have to reject state helplessness and find solutions for the problems of the French people," he said.
Many young people in the suburbs have expressed doubts that the government will carry out its promises, and the opposition Socialist Party remained sceptical.
"He is trying to play Father Christmas with a gift parcel in which there is nothing," Socialist Party spokesman Julien Dray said. "There isn't any money for the suburbs, for the people on the ground, or to change things."
Villepin also faces dissent on some policy issues from his number two in government, Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy.
Sarkozy, who has made no secret of his presidential ambitions and could face a battle with Villepin to lead the centre-right into the 2007 presidential election, supports "positive discrimination" or affirmative action to help minorities find jobs. Villepin again ruled that out.
(Additional reporting by Laure Bretton)
© Reuters 2005. All Rights Reserved.
-------------------------------------------
as shown time and time again the rioting has nothing to do with islam
The inequalities that blazed in France will soon scorch the world
The tensions between a dispossessed underclass and the comfortable majority have only been repressed, not solved
Immanuel Wallerstein - Saturday December 3, 2005 - The Guardian
Last month France had a rebellion of its underclass that lasted for about two weeks. Groups of young people, mostly of north African or sub-Saharan descent, set fire to cars and hurled rocks at police. In some ways, this was the kind of uprising that has been occurring throughout the world in recent decades. But it also had particular French explanations. It emerged violently, like a phoenix. It has been suppressed by the force of the state. It is far from over.
The immediate story is very simple. Three young men saw police stopping other youths and asking for identity cards. This happens routinely in France to young people of colour who live in the de facto segregated high-rise, dilapidated housing of the banlieues (where France's ghettoes are located). These housing complexes are home to largely unemployed, undereducated youths who have few prospects for jobs, for upward mobility, or even for non-work activity (sport, or cultural centres). These young people run away from identity checks primarily because they are often pointlessly taken into custody in police stations, where they are often harassed, and where they remain for hours until their parents come to take them home.
In this particular case, the youths jumped a wall and landed in an electricity substation, where two of them were electrocuted. This was the spark to the rebellion. It was a rebellion against poverty, joblessness, racist behaviour by the French police and, above all, lack of acceptance as the citizens they mostly are and as the cultural minority they feel they have the right to remain. The French government seemed primarily concerned with repressing the rebellion, and eventually succeeded in this. The fact that the prime minister and the minister of the interior are fierce rivals for the future candidacy for the presidency ensured that neither was going to seem soft on rebellion and thereby give an advantage to the other.
It amazes me that people are surprised when underclasses rebel. The surprising thing is that they do not do it more often. The combination of the oppressiveness of poverty and racism and the lack of short-term, or even medium-term hope is surely a recipe for rebellion. What keeps rebellion down is fear of repression, which is why repression is usually swift. But the repression never makes the anger go away. Dominique de Villepin, the prime minister, says that this uprising was not as bad as those of Los Angeles in 1992, when 54 people died and 2,000 were hurt. Perhaps not, but that's hardly a basis for boasting.
Throughout the world today, metropolitan areas are filled with people who match the profile of the rebels in France: poor, jobless, socially marginalised and defined as "different" - and therefore angry. If they are teenagers they have the energy to rebel, and lack even the minimal family responsibilities that might restrain them. Furthermore, the anger is reciprocated. Those in the more comfortable majority fear these young people precisely for the characteristics they have. The better-off feel that the poor youths tend to be lawless and, well, "different". So, many of the better-off (but perhaps not all) tend to endorse strong measures to contain these rebellions, including total exclusion from the society, even from the country.
France is in some ways an exaggerated version of what we find everywhere, not only in North America and the rest of Europe, but throughout the south in countries such as Brazil, Mexico, India and South Africa. Indeed, it is hard to think of a country where this issue does not exist. The problem with France is that too many of its citizens have long denied to themselves that this is a French problem as well.
France defines itself as the country of universal values, where discrimination cannot exist because everyone can become a French person if they're ready to integrate fully. The reality is that France has always (yes, I said always) been a country of immigration. In the days of the ancien regime, and even in the first half of the 19th century, the non-French speakers (50% up to the French revolution) migrated to Paris and other northern cities. Later it was the Italians, the Belgians and the Corsicans. Then came the Poles, and then the Portuguese and Spaniards. And in the past 40 years or so, massively, north and sub-Saharan Africans and immigrants from what was French Indochina.
France is a multicultural country par excellence still living the Jacobin dream of uniformity. The number of practising Catholics is zooming down while the number of practising Muslims is increasing daily. The major consequence of this has been a hallucinatory debate for more than a decade on what to do about Muslim girls who wish to have their hair covered when they go to school. The racist right saw the wearing of the foulard (headscarf) as an affront to Frenchness and, if truth be told, to Christianity. The classical left (or at least a large part of it) saw it as a challenge to sacrosanct laïcité. Both sides combined to outlaw the foulard (and, in order to be balanced, Christian and Jewish "large" symbols too). So a certain number of Muslim girls were expelled from school. And the matter was thought to be solved somehow.
What was remarkable about the rebellion in France this time is that it did not focus on religious issues. For example, it did not result in anti-semitic tirades. Because France has a large number of poor Jews who live in the same housing complexes, there have been Muslim-Jewish, or rather Palestinian-Israeli, tensions for the past two decades. But that issue was shelved. The French rebellion was a spontaneous class uprising. And like most spontaneous uprisings, it could not be sustained for too long.
But also, like most rebellions, the possibility of recurrence will not disappear unless the gross inequalities are overcome. And it does not seem that too much effort is being made by the French authorities (or, for that matter, by authorities elsewhere in the world) to overcome inequalities. We are in an epoch of accentuating, not alleviating, inequalities. And therefore we are in an epoch of increasing, not decreasing, rebellions.
· Immanuel Wallerstein is a senior research scholar at Yale University and the author of The Decline of American Power: the US in a Chaotic World ©2005 Immanuel Wallerstein
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